Eleven and the gang seemingly close the gate to the Upside Down,
but the Mind Flayer remains, ominously hovering above the Snow Ball.
In our last chapter, I'm gonna take a final deep dive
into Stranger Things 2,
and look forward to what might be coming next
right now on Beyond Stranger Things.
I'm excited to say this,
but I've said it every time, so why don't you guys do it?
[together] Spoilers ahead.
They did it better than me. Here we go.
[theme music playing]
Joining me now at the table
to sort of wrap up our discussion, all things Beyond Stranger Things,
uh, we have Natalia Dyer, who plays Nancy.
We have Millie Bobby Brown, who plays Eleven.
We have Noah Schnapp, who plays Will.
We have executive producer and director of many episodes, Shawn Levy.
And, of course, the show's creators, the Duffer Brothers, Matt and Ross.
Thank you guys for joining what will be sort of our version of closing the gate.
First thing I wanna start with is, I wanna go over here to Noah.
What was that like to sort of
- go into Will's world this time? - Yeah.
I mean, Will kind of, this season,
had his regular skin of him and his quiet, shy personality.
And then there was the monster inside of him, the evilness,
uh, surrounding him.
You shouldn't have done that.
You shouldn't have upset him.
I kinda had to imagine being two different people, in a way.
- [Jim] Mm-hmm. - But making it subtle and not like,
"I am Will," and like...
That would've been my approach as an actor.
- [all laughing] - [roars]
This is why I didn't get the part, because I would've been a big sobby.
It is amazing just to watch you,
'cause it's gradual that you're being taken over.
So episode to episode, you're a little bit less Will and a little bit...
I remember originally when we were plotting out the season, it was more...
It was gonna be evil Will by around, uh,
- episode four. - I'd forgotten.
- [Jim] Really? - Evil Will was gonna...
Initially, evil Will killed someone...
- What? - by the midpoint.
[Matt] Yeah. Didn't I tell you this?
In that scene that is now talking about Mr. Baldo...
- [Ross] Yeah. - in an early, early outline,
- evil Will was gonna kill Bob. - [all chattering]
- He was gonna kill Bob. - [Shawn] Yeah.
- What? - No, but it would've been evil you.
- The Mind Flayer. - [Millie] You would've felt guilty.
This time, I stood my ground.
I just looked at Mr. Baldo
and his stupid face, and I said, "Go away. Go away!"
'Cause I was always nervous about a possession story line.
'Cause I feel it's been done so many times.
And then, it took us a while to figure out that what we could do
that was unique about it
was that this can be a possession that's kind of taking place
over the course of, like, you know, five hours.
And that he's not fully there until the very end.
- [Jim] The very end. - Till the very end of episode nine.
And so even in episode eight...
That's one of my favorite sequences,
is that like... I think Noah's amazing.
When they're trying to... He's not there, but they're trying to pull Will out.
If you're in there, just please... please talk to us.
Please, honey. Can you do that for me?
Please.
- I love you so much. - [trembling breaths]
Let me go.
In that cabin scene, Natalia, you have a lot of characters there.
Joyce is going on a big journey at that point.
- [Shawn] Oh, yeah. - Yeah, no,
it was a really intense scene, mostly because this guy
- was just so in it. - Get the hell out of my son!
It was so scary to watch, like, right up in person.
[screaming, gasping]
[Jim] You stab him with a poker at some point.
- [Matt] As you do. - [Jim] Yeah.
As one does.
- [Jim] As one does. - I mean...
I have to say... 'Cause it's one of those moments when you're like,
"What we're doing is ridiculous."
- Because... - Oh, my God.
She wasn't stabbing Noah with the fire... It was a real fire poker.
And we had Noah's dummy from last year.
But this dummy looks incredibly real. I took a video...
- [Millie]You sent me a video. - Remember?
I took a video. Because it looks like... If you film it really quickly,
it looks exactly like Noah.
So, I filmed this video of Noah, and I just punched him really hard.
And then we had someone hiding under the bed,
- shaking it... in pain... - [Shawn] Really?
as she just stabbed it, and we had a puff of smoke.
We were trying to get the timing, and then someone was shaking...
- Natalia has terrible aim also, so she... - [Natalia] Okay.
- [Matt] Wait, wait. - So, to be fair, you know, it's like,
you're in it. You have to imagine all these things that have happened.
All this stuff that's going on, and he's possessed,
and then, there's heavy breathing, and trying to get in it,
and then, grab the poker, take it,
stab this tiny little X where the smoke is.
- [Matt] Yeah. - [Natalia] You have to hit right there.
You know, like, convincing, and back away.
And then not laugh when this little dummy goes... [shudders]
[screaming]
- [screeching] - [gasps]
Everyone was really distraught,
and it was very upsetting for everyone to watch, except me...
- I had a big smile on my face. - [Millie] You were laughing.
- Everybody thought you were sick. - People started to wonder about,
- like, whether... - Your mental health?
If something was wrong. I was enjoying watching a child in severe pain.
- But, I mean, it's all... - [Noah] That's so...
I now understand a lot of what's coming out of y'all's heads.
It was like Sam Raimi, like Evil Dead, it was so funny.
It was exactly how I wanted it to be. Noah was crushing it.
Why wouldn't I be smiling?
I feel like you do that with many scenes.
If somebody's doing something really weird, you're like, "Yes! Yes!
That was really good!" Especially Shawn. You just scream.
- Well, we get excited. - [Matt] Yeah, we do get...
If something's coming to life in the way that... It's exciting.
It goes above what you... was in your head.
You cannot be but excited for all these things.
No matter how dark it is, it's exciting.
It's one thing that we talked a little bit about,
Snow Ball being already there.
But it's another thing to talk about wrapping up story lines.
Season one ended with a lot of questions and, um... unanswered questions.
So this year we really wanted to wrap things up.
Um, there's a little hint at the end, of course.
- Of course. Gotta have that. - You never know.
There's still some issues. But, um, um...
- Just some small issues. - [Jim] Small issues. The wrap-up?
- [Shawn] Like a lurking shadow monster. - [Matt] Monster hovering over the school.
- Things like that. - [Jim] This one closes more with
knowing that the task was to evolve these characters into...
in some cases, especially at this table,
into what they were destined to become.
- Right. - That's very true.
One of the things that I enjoyed, there's a lot of puzzle-solving.
You know. And I think it was chapter four when puzzles...
almost every character had a puzzle.
I... This is another revelation in the aftershow.
- [Jim] What...? - She's doing a puzzle
- when they're setting up the cabin. - [Jim] They're all doing puzzles.
That's why... Bob when he brings over his puzzle games.
When I was sick as a kid, and I was sick all the time as a kid...
nothing made me feel better than focusing on these brainteasers.
Those are great.
And Joyce is like, "Oh, well, this maybe... "
But you sort of developed those, yes?
Because we have... You know.
And it's almost an evolution of how she solves.
You have Joyce, from Christmas lights to...
- crayon drawings. You know. - [Matt] Yes.
And she's a little bit different in that problem-solving.
[chuckles] Maybe next season, she won't put things all over her house, but...
I don't think it's a season of Stranger Things
- if we don't trash... - Exactly.
[Ross] We love destroying that house.
I love... And just people coming over to that house
and just looking at it in complete confusion,
it entertains me every time.
- I love Sean Astin's... - Sean Astin's reaction to just the house
being covered in these drawings.
[Matt] And I also... I mean, I love games,
and so, one of my favorite moments is when it goes from...
- being very concerned about Joyce... - [Jim] Mm-hmm.
- to he cannot help himself. - [Jim] Yes.
Okay, I get it. That's Lake Jordan.
And if that's Lake Jordan, then you'll probably find... [snaps]
Yeah, that's, uh... Sattler's quarry.
And then if you just follow it naturally...
[Ross] I think he just is gonna get into this as a game.
And he'll just slowly realize that this is actually a real, uh...
Something serious is going on.
But all that stuff in the tunnel... "We're inside his drawing."
- that was all just Sean. - What do you mean?
- Just improv. Just saying things. - [Jim] He did?
- [Matt] Yeah. - the tunnels.
Is this Will's map?
- Hopper! - Are we in Will's map?
Hopper!
He knows how to play his part,
but he understands how the whole story gets told,
so, his little ad-libs, and his little improvs,
- they're part of a bigger piece. - [Jim] Yep.
He's very savvy about all of it.
Obviously, death of Bob is so much of the next part of the story,
because it drives Joyce later.
But I wanna talk about first,
overall, the idea of death of character and story.
You have been at death's door twice.
[Millie] I feel like you shouldn't die now.
[Matt] I know, we need to give Will a break
- in season three. - [Ross] Will's just gonna be...
- He'll just be hanging out and having fun. - Gotta be an easier...
His other friends will be... He'll be like, "You guys deal with this.
- I'm just gonna... " - "I'll be at home knitting."
It's really hard, especially as we were writing, with Sean, um...
I mean, Bob was always... He was always gonna eat it.
When we got to that episode,
I had a break... I kinda had a mental breakdown.
And this is also in the midst of production, you know, it's, like,
long hours, writing, and I was just like, "We can't lose Bob."
I loved the extra flavor he added to the show.
- [Jim] Yeah. - It raised the stakes to such a degree.
I think with movies, you get conditioned.
You have a sense of who's gonna make it to the end.
And with TV, I like the unpredictability. But it's hard,
because you fall in love with these characters and these actors.
Yeah. Let's see what Sean Astin had to say about Bob's demise. We have him on tape.
So, in every great series...
someone's gotta go.
And I'm not entirely sure
that they knew Bob was gonna have to go at the beginning...
Actually, I think they did know.
- Yeah, we did. - But then they kept extending it, like,
- maybe he'll go in episode four or five... - That's true.
So, I just kept saying, "I don't care if I last two episodes
or five seasons.
Just please let Bob,
you know, pitiful RadioShack Bob, let him do something heroic."
And I think I said that word "heroic" like 35 times
until they looked at me like, "Dude, we got it.
- We know what that word means." - [all chuckling]
I couldn't have, um, asked them to write a better death.
I tell people all the time that all an actor can hope for
is a good death.
And, um... And Bob really gets a chance to shine.
- [Shawn] Yeah. He does. - See? He felt it.
[Ross] He wanted a memorable death scene.
We were not gonna make it as violent as we did,
and then he kept talking about Jaws, and Quint being ripped apart and...
And I was like, "All right, man. We'll go for it."
[muted audio]
There was one more violent...
But even I was like, "This is getting gratuitous."
- Yeah. - But the Quint death is...
You know, Jaws is PG, and that's...
- What was it? - I can't believe Jaws is PG.
What was the violent thing you couldn't do?
He filled his mouth with blood and spit like a geyser.
- In slow motion. - [Noah] Oh...
I remember watching it on the monitor.
- Amazing. I was there. - [Matt] Oh, you were watching.
[Matt] That whole night was hard. Even though it was ridiculous,
one of our writers was in town visiting, just to...
just to watch us, to kind of, like, see how a set works.
And she was like the perfect size for a Demodog.
And so we were like, "Would you be open to just, like, attacking Sean?"
- [Ross] For hours. - Are you serious?
[Matt] So we... There's crazy footage.
But all her hand motions is all actually... I mean, she's...
When she gets on top of him, she's just attacking him
over and over again for like two and a half hours.
She was covered in blood by the end.
But loved it, right?
- She lo... She loved it. - [Jim] How could you not?
- Yeah. - [Jim] "I got to attack Sean Astin."
[Ross] But it was just so intense, his screams. It was terrifying.
I think it helped... You can see it on Winona's face, in that reaction.
That kind of stuff really affects Winona. 'Cause Sean came out smothered in blood.
[muted audio]
No! [echoing]
I wanna ask you just 'cause of a choice.
Joyce choosing not to take that out with Bob.
[Matt] Yeah. Why is she not getting out of Hawkins?
[Jim] Mm-hmm.
- There's things tying them down here. - [Ross] But I do think
if Bob had made it out, I think they would've left.
I think she would've gone with him.
- Wow. I know. - [Shawn] Even more heartbreaking.
- [Noah] And he was right there. - [Jim] Right?
David Harbour couldn't be here today, but we asked him about Hopper's thoughts
on Bob and Joyce's relationship.
- Let's see what he had to say about that. - [Ross] This'll be interesting.
Does Hopper think that Joyce and Bob are a good match?
Uh, I would say absolutely not.
I mean, look, I get the impulse that she's following,
in terms of, like...
She was clearly in a very destructive relationship with Lonnie.
Um, and she's clearly very protective of Will,
and so, she's sort of chosen this guy
that's gonna be very, um, you know,
very nice to her, very nice to Will,
and be a kind of good dorky father figure, but, you know...
The fans, they call it, like, "Jopper" or something.
They'll "ship" this relationship of Hopper and Joyce,
and I do, too, because I feel like they're two really lonely, lost people
that need each other. I have always seen their relationship kind of like
Chinatown with Faye Dunaway and Jack Nicholson.
So, you know, we talked even about, at the end of the season,
I was like, "Can they get together?"
And we were like, "What's gonna happen? He's gonna, like...
Bob's dead and she's upset, and he ushers her into the bedroom?"
I mean it's like... You know, he can't be that much of a jerk.
The short answer is I do feel like the sex will be a lot better with Hopper
than it is with Bob.
- [laughter] - [Jim] Wow.
[Shawn] Not appropriate. Not appropriate.
- Oh, poor Bob. - [Ross] This is a children's show.
- Wow. - [Millie] God.
- Well... - [Millie] If anything happened...
That was a classic Hopper response if I've ever seen one.
Oh, my goodness.
I have to say, I do love...
It's a small thing, but the idea that Joyce and Hopper,
at the end, are sharing a cigarette, and you get a sense of...
- kind of that shared history. - [Jim] Of course.
- [Shawn] And maybe something... - [Noah] Yeah.
kind of remaining there. Just as a viewer, I'm kind of...
I'm dying to know what happens next with those two.
That would obviously, going down the road, would unite other characters.
- You've got Hopper's connection... - Then they would be...
- Stepmom. - brother and sister.
High-five. We're gonna be brother and sister.
Eleven-Will Byers stepsibling.
- And then you'll have... Oh, my God. - Oh, my God. You're right.
So we've pretty much just brought everyone together.
- Wait, what? That would be so weird. - Really weird.
- But you can never get in fights with... - She would throw you across the room.
- Yeah. [laughs] Unless you have powers. - [Jim] Yeah.
- [mimics suspenseful chord] - [laughter]
- Uh-oh. We got evil vs. evil. - [Millie] All right. I'll stop talking.
♪ Evil vs. good at the table ♪
Uh, I wanna go...
'Cause I wanna sort of start building into our little finale
the higher power that Eleven has taken on,
that we see in the levitating moment.
[Millie] It was a fun scene, very crazy. There was a lot going on.
There was, like, really loud noises,
and then me screaming on top of that.
And then you hear Matt's voice, like, "Cut!" But I could not hear it,
- so I kept screaming. - [Matt] You had earplugs.
- [Millie] I had earplugs in, so it... - [Matt] You were high up.
I was really high up. But I think my favorite part was just, like,
ending it and... you know,
Hopper's holding me.
You did good, kid.
You did so good.
It was kind of the same feeling that I had with Papa
when he was carrying me down the hallway.
It was the same connection feeling that, like,
I'm just exhausted and...
like, I just want a hug.
- Giving you comfort. - I feel like Papa was a warm guy,
and he did love me inside. I know it.
- "Warm"? - Interesting.
- I didn't know you felt this way. - Stockholm syndrome...
- is what they call this. - [Millie] He was...
No. He was...
People thought he was cold, but I'm sure Eleven had
- this good connection. - [Ross] Complicated relationship.
- [Jim] Super complications. - He was the first...
Wait, I don't know if I'm right. Was he the first person to hold me?
- Um... - [Shawn] Interesting.
[Matt] Yeah, I mean, potentially.
[Shawn] Very interesting question, right?
- [Matt] Mm-hmm. - [Millie] Then,
there's this connection to the first person to hold you...
- Makes sense. - as a baby.
So, that's why I feel like we have a really good connection,
and I have the same connection with Hopper.
- Wow! - A good connection?
- Wouldn't use the word "good." - I wish David was here.
No, but this is great. This is why it's great writing.
It's like, when each character can understand
kind of the appeal of even a villain.
That's why... I mean, Matthew gets very upset when people call him evil.
[Millie] I think that people see him as that.
Yeah, he wants to get the most out of me with my powers, and he...
[Matt] He throws you in a box when you've misbehaved.
- [Millie] But... - Tries to get you to kill a cat.
- [Millie] Listen. - [laughter]
- But that's what makes... - [Shawn] What family isn't weird?
I think without Papa, Eleven wouldn't be who she is.
She wouldn't channel her anger, she wouldn't find things...
This conversation took a fascinating turn.
Sorry. But yeah, I think so.
That's... One of my favorite moments in season two
is when, in your argument with Hopper, when you say, "You're like Papa."
- And David's reaction... - "You are like Papa."
You are like Papa!
Really?
I'm like that psychotic son of a bitch?
Obviously, we're leaving her at this point with a growth in strength.
You know. And that means what for what kind of future?
Well, it's a complicated dilemma, in terms of,
you know, everyone wanting her to be able to live
a somewhat regular life.
- More ready for the real world. - She's becoming a teenager
with increasingly intense powers. Kind of an iffy...
- Oh, terrible thing. - [Millie] Oh, my God.
- Right? - [Millie] But I feel like Eleven...
- Eleven wouldn't be like that. - I can see things going not so well.
No, I think that the one thing I would love,
have at least one scene with Noah.
Our scenes, you're always dead or unconscious.
No, I'm always like...
They're like very... They're two of our closest cast members.
- [Shawn] They're close friends. - [Noah] In the show,
there's no relationship between the two.
We now know you could be living under one roof.
- Right, there are ways... - There's so many...
They're so connected in the show.
- Right. - But they're never
face-to-face talking to each other. It's like they have kind of a shared...
- It's true. - A weird connection...
When I'm in the Upside Down, he's in the world.
- And when he's in the Upside Down... - That's true.
One thing I wanted to talk about was Mama scenes,
like with Terry Ives.
[Millie] When I finished season one, I really didn't think
I was gonna come back. I thought that was just it for Eleven.
And then, when they said that I was gonna be with David,
and then Shawn was like, "And you're gonna be with Mama.
But I can't tell you anything more." I was just like...
- He's the wor... Shawn is the worst. - To give away?
I'm a walking spoiler.
I... Risk. I'm a huge risk.
[Millie] But listen...
It was really fun to work with a whole new perspective of Eleven,
- her vulnerable side with her mother. - [Jim] Yeah.
It was really fun.
I do like talking about maybe where characters feel
they are being left off.
Where would you think Nancy is after this?
Obviously, again, this huge traumatic experience,
I think there's some...
Now that Barb's death has been announced, you know,
there's all that emotional baggage to deal with and dole out.
There's the Steve-Nancy relationship,
- and the Jonathan-Nancy relationship. - [Millie] Jancy?
- [Shawn] "Jancy"? - Jancy and Stancy.
- Their ship names. - I ship Stancy all the way.
- I ship Jancy. - [Matt] What? You ship what?
- Stancy. - Stancy?
- Bold statement. - [Noah] Jancy.
Bold statement. Put it out in the universe.
- And the Upside Down. - [Matt] Oh, my God.
We get a glimpse of evil still being out there.
Do you think there's anybody who's aware of that,
or is this outside of the Snow Ball, this is just for us?
[Matt] It was a decision we made this year,
in that we didn't wanna start people off on their journeys.
Kinda the end of last year, we kind of started...
Like, you began to tease what was gonna happen.
What each character was gonna be, Hopper and Eleven and Will.
And so we didn't wanna do that this year.
I didn't wanna accidentally box us into something
- that we would later regret. Um... - Yep. Makes sense.
The idea that this thing,
this sentient Mind Flayer is still out there.
Obviously, Will has a connection to it.
Even if it's lost, you were very close to it for a while.
And then this thing is very aware of Eleven.
[Shawn] They've come face-to-face.
- [Millie] I'm screwed. - [Matt] Screwed.
I would be worried about Eleven. You slammed the door on him.
I think before we close and slam the gate on Beyond Stranger Things,
the one thing that I couldn't fit in, but I think it's fun to ask you,
is do we think there's a place in the future to at least see
- Mrs. Wheeler and Billy go on... - [Shawn] Oh, please.
- [Noah] Oh, yeah. - [cheering]
[Shawn] I feel like the world wants that, the world needs that.
- [Millie] Yeah. - Oh, yeah, I think it'd be hot.
- Yeah. - Just a simple "hot."
Yeah.
- Oh, absolutely. - Yeah, Karen is... You know, she's lonely.
If you notice, she always has a glass of wine.
[Shawn] She drinks all season long.
- [Matt] Ted is not satisfying her. - [Ross] And we didn't... If you catch it...
- [Jim] He's in that La-Z-Boy. - [Matt] She doesn't know Billy.
She doesn't know his personality, which is maybe...
She doesn't care.
I don't know if they'd do a lot of talking, so maybe it's fine.
No, her look was "I'm in." We're literally writing it as we speak.
Well, I really want Jim in the writers' room.
Well, they are headed into high school.
- They're gonna have a new... - We will be needing new teachers.
I've worked at a college, that's all I'm saying.
[laughter]
You guys have been awesome. This is been such a fun journey
personally for me, just 'cause I'm a fan of the show,
and I got to hear all the inside stuff, and I love that kind of stuff.
So, thank you so much for sharing and being so candid.
- Thanks for doing this. - [all chatter]
[Jim] A wonderful show, uh, and wonderful characters,
and amazing performances, and amazing directing,
across the board, so...
Uh, well, that's it for Beyond Stranger Things.
Thanks to you at home for coming on this journey with us.
We'll see you around Hawkins.
And if you need anything, just yell, "Code red!" I did it. [laughs]
I had to. Come on, guys.
[theme music playing]